Tuesday, 10 June 2008

The Cross


You do know that the cross that you worship is a torture device, right? And, you do know that it's very probable that Jesus (if he existed and died as the Bible says) would have been crucified on a cross that resembled a "T" and not a "t", right?

11 comments:

Anonymous said...

I always thought that the Romans crucified their victims upside down.

Question of Identity said...

(1) You do know that Christians don't worship the cross?

(2)You are nearly right about the shape of the cross - it would be a "T" shape with a slightly extended upright.

Anonymous said...

What I love about god: if you do this, its the wrong choice, if you do that its a wrond choice. I have found by experience that god is a lose-lose situation.

GCT said...

QOI,
1) You may as well since it is the symbol of Xianity. Why don't I start a religion and make the defining symbol of it some other torture device?

2) And not what most Xians think Jesus was crucified upon. How can people be so ignorant about something that they claim has the utmost importance?

Anonymous said...

GCT. I have a suggestion. Why not censor QOI? He does on his site and then responds when you question him with some trumped up false allegation of "curse" words or "aggression"

He get pretty aggressive here! So what about tit-4-tat or should I say, an "eye for an eye".

Mr. Truth said...

I have a burning desire to vent my spleen on Mr. X. For the sake of review, what I have been writing up to this point is not what I initially intended to write in this letter. Instead, I decided it would be far more productive to tell you that Mr. X's snow jobs are a mere cavil, a mere scarecrow, one of the last shifts of a desperate and dying cause. There is a format he should follow for his next literary endeavor. It involves a topic sentence and supporting facts. Mr. X does not tolerate any view that differs from his own. Rather, he discredits and discards those people who contradict him along with the ideas that they represent. Unsettling as that is, the more infuriating fact is that I have observed that those who disagree with me on the next point tend to be unsophisticated and those who recognize the validity of the point to be more educated. The point is that Mr. X is extraordinarily brazen. We've all known that for a long time. However, his willingness to make us less united, less moral, less sensitive, less engaged, and more perversely moonstruck sets a new record for brazenness. At this point, our task is to find the inner strength to deal with the relevant facts. Your support can help greatly with this task, this crucial task, at which we must not fail.

GCT said...

Anonymous,
The blog is set up to allow for open and frank discussion. QOI can do what he wants with his blog and I see no reason not to allow him to continually stick his foot in his mouth here. His comments are generally easily refutable and transparent. He lacks the ability to debate on the issues and can only proselytize and I think that people can see that.

GCT said...

Mr. Truth,
Mind if I take your post apart now?
"I have a burning desire to vent my spleen on Mr. X."

Since I've been the one posting the most lately, I'll assume that you actually meant that you'd like to vent on me, correct?

"Instead, I decided it would be far more productive to tell you that Mr. X's snow jobs are a mere cavil, a mere scarecrow, one of the last shifts of a desperate and dying cause."

Really? Care to point out where I have been in error, or will you do like so many other Xians here and simply assert I am wrong and never bother to back it up? And, if this is part of some desperate and dying cause, then why is freethought growing?

"There is a format he should follow for his next literary endeavor. It involves a topic sentence and supporting facts."

Which is what I've been doing. Do you have a problem with the logical contradictions that your faith is built upon? Then I suggest you show how they are not contradictions!

"Mr. X does not tolerate any view that differs from his own."

Yeah, that's why we allow people like you to post here and have your say, right?

"Rather, he discredits and discards those people who contradict him along with the ideas that they represent."

Guilty as charged here I suppose. I do discredit the ideas that I disagree with, because I've generally found them to be wrong. If you have an idea that is not wrong, then let me know and change my mind. And, why would I hold onto discredited ideas? How absurd.

As for discarding people, I've never done that and I would like for you to find an instance where that has occurred. Back up your words. (Oh the irony.)

"Unsettling as that is..."

Why would it be unsettling for one to show why religious ideas are lacking in merit?

"...the more infuriating fact is that I have observed that those who disagree with me on the next point tend to be unsophisticated and those who recognize the validity of the point to be more educated."

Et tu Brutus?

"The point is that Mr. X is extraordinarily brazen."

I am brazen I suppose. I don't see the need to treat you with kid gloves, because I don't want to disrespect you by treating you or your ideas like a child. If you'd like, I could do so, but I think that frank talk is more respectful.

"However, his willingness to make us less united, less moral, less sensitive, less engaged, and more perversely moonstruck sets a new record for brazenness."

Less united? Yes. I would like to see religion lose ground, because it is a force for irrationality and immorality.

Less moral? How do you figure that? I've spent many posts pointing out the immorality of the acts of god, thus pointing the way to what is moral.

Less sensitive? Guilty. Too many Xians, in my experience, are overly sensitive when it comes to anything approaching criticism of their faith. If you can't handle or even countenance criticism, then you are simply a mindless follower of someone else's unproven, dogmatic claims.

Less engaged? Again, I don't know where you got this from. This is an open forum where anyone can speak their mind, including you. I've also asked, repeatedly, for Xians to chime in and give their opinions and supporting facts and arguments for their beliefs. I'm asking you to be more engaged and actually examine that which you believe.

More perversely moonstruck? I don't even know what you mean by that. I do like setting records though.

"At this point, our task is to find the inner strength to deal with the relevant facts."

Then bring some relevant facts! But, why would that take inner strength?

Oh, BTW, when you bring those facts, don't make the mistake of assuming your conclusion and then trying to fit the "facts" around it as so many theists tend to do. (Most religions are actually built on this.)

"Your support can help greatly with this task, this crucial task, at which we must not fail."

Why must you not fail, because you think you already have all the answers before you even look at my arguments? So much for caring about truth and facts and evidence, right?

Mr. Truth said...

"GCT's" inclinations are totally disgusting - so much so, that if there are any children or sensitive people reading this, I suggest that they stop now and not read what I am about to describe. To address this in a pedantic manner, in the rest of this post, factual information will be prefaced as such and my own opinions will be clearly stated as opinions. For instance, it is a fact that GCT is not the only one who needs to reassess his assumptions. Think about the worst sorts of satanic ratbags there are. They too should realize that GCT accuses me of being narrow-minded. Does he insist I'm narrow-minded because I refuse to accept his claim that militant barmpots are more deserving of honor than our nation's war heroes? If so, then I guess I'm as narrow-minded as I could possibly be.

GCT ought to unstop his ears and uncover his eyes. Only then will he hear that to which he has been too long heedless. Only then will GCT see that I do not appreciate being sinned against. No one does. Nevertheless, to get even the simplest message into the consciousness of infernal, devious rapscallions it has to be repeated at least fifty times. Now, I don't want to insult your intelligence by telling you the following fifty times, but his plan is to pit people against each other. GCT's loyalists are moving at a frightening pace toward the total implementation of that agenda, which includes causing riots in the streets.

As long as I live and breathe, I will strive to ask GCT to rephrase his criticisms in a more reasoned way. Still, I recommend you check out some of GCT's atheistic morals and draw your own conclusions on the matter.

GCT said...

Mr. truth,
""GCT's" inclinations are totally disgusting"

For example? What's so disgusting about non-belief? What's so disgusting about asking you to show me why I should believe as you do?

"For instance, it is a fact that GCT is not the only one who needs to reassess his assumptions."

It's a fact? What assumptions? How can I reassess assumptions that I don't hold?

"Think about the worst sorts of satanic ratbags there are. They too should realize that GCT accuses me of being narrow-minded."

Satanic ratbags? I'm about to call Poe's law. And, where did I accuse you of that?

"Does he insist I'm narrow-minded because I refuse to accept his claim that militant barmpots are more deserving of honor than our nation's war heroes?"

Where in the world is this coming from? Where did either one of us previously mention "our nation's war heroes?" Why do you resort to name calling? Why do you think I'm militant? Does writing for a blog make me militant? Why do you think I'm a bumbling idiot? Do you have reasons to back this up, or do you just like to call people names when you disagree with them (probably because you can't back it up)?

"GCT ought to unstop his ears and uncover his eyes. Only then will he hear that to which he has been too long heedless."

It is by doing that that I became an atheist.

"Only then will GCT see that I do not appreciate being sinned against."

I reject the idea that I can "sin" at all, let alone sin against you.

"Nevertheless, to get even the simplest message into the consciousness of infernal, devious rapscallions it has to be repeated at least fifty times."

If you are taking the tone of god, I find this statement to be rather telling. Why would god have to tell me something 50 times for it to sink in? Is god really that impotent? Even if you are just speaking as yourself, why is god's message so ineffective?

"Now, I don't want to insult your intelligence by telling you the following fifty times, but his plan is to pit people against each other."

Ah, no. My plan is to engage in reasoned discussion and present my side and show the inadequacy of the arguments of theists. So far, I feel I've done a pretty good job, especially when people like you show up ringing alarm bells but utterly unwilling and unable to actually discuss the issues at hand.

"GCT's loyalists are moving at a frightening pace toward the total implementation of that agenda, which includes causing riots in the streets."

In your first comment, you called this the "last shifts of a desperate and dying cause." Now, you sound as if we are unstoppable. Care to make up your mind?

And, I am actually laughing at your hyperbole. Riots in the streets? Please.

"As long as I live and breathe, I will strive to ask GCT to rephrase his criticisms in a more reasoned way."

More reasoned way? What is unreasonable about pointing out the fact that the cross that Xians use as a symbol of worship is not only wrong, but also an implement of torture? What is wrong about pointing out the cruel and immoral actions of your god? If your god is defined as the ultimate moral agent, then your god's morality should be unimpeachable. Yet, your god has caused genocide, tortures people in hell for all eternity, etc.

"Still, I recommend you check out some of GCT's atheistic morals and draw your own conclusions on the matter."

I invite everyone to do the same, as I have nothing to hide. Disbelief in god does not make me an immoral person. It does not make me a serial rapist or murderer. On the whole, Xians are no more or less moral than atheists or people of pretty much any religious persuasion and that's a fact. I would argue that Xians are moral in spite of the teachings of their religion in most cases, but that's a different argument. If you wish to attack my morals, then I suggest you actually back up what you say with some examples of my immorality, if you can find any.

Mr. X said...

"Mr. Truth" sounds like a pompous idiot to me.