Wednesday, 18 March 2009

Can You Feel the Supernatural?


How many times have theists claimed that they can sense god? Apart from the obvious problems that come with this, one that is not very often discussed is what if they actually are sensing something supernatural?

So, let's say that something supernatural is talking to people, how do they know which supernatural entity it is? Many Xians believe that Satan is a supernatural being that tricks people in order to damn their souls. Most Xians, however, would claim that they know how to tell Satan apart from god, but I find this claim to be highly suspect. If Satan does have supernatural powers, how would one know that Satan can not accurately represent god enough to fool the believer? Perhaps Satan is leading all Xians away from the one true god, who happens to be Thor or Allah or any other god. Yet, these Xians in their smug, self-righteousness never even consider that they might be wrong about their interpretations of who or what is speaking to them.

14 comments:

Kyle-Oh said...

I just want to share something with you. You are never going to really see the proof that God is real. I know it may be hard to understand what the heck it means to be moved and feel the presence of God. I believe you are never really going to experience it unless you are not regenerated in Christ. Trust me I have felt the presence of God but before I was a Christian I thought it was complete crap until it actually happened to me. But anyways I would like to present Gods Law to you.

I just would love you to ask yourself these questions that I'm going to list below.

Do you consider yourself to be a good person?

If so, then have you obeyed Gods 10 commandments?

Well if you have or have not lets go a little more in depth

Have you ever lied before?
Y/N
Then hopefully you would know that makes you a liar…(BTW everyone is)
Have you ever lusted after someone before?
Y/N
Well Jesus said if you ever lust after someone you have committed adultery in your heart.
Have you ever hated someone before?
Y/N
Well Jesus said if you ever hate someone you have murdered them in your heart.
Have you ever stolen something before?
Y/N
If you have that would make you a thief right?

So if you answered yes to any of these and have realized that if you have stolen you are a thief and if you lusted you have committed adultery and if you have hated you have murdered. Then by your own admission you are a lying thieving adulter at heart. And Jesus said if you broken at least one of these commandments then your guilty of them all. We only went through 4 of them. If you said you haven’t to any of them then check the other 6. But I highly doubt if you’re a man you never lusted after a women before lol
I want to ask you now
In Gods perfect eyes would you be innocent or guilty?
You would probably be guilty right?
Well then if your guilty do you think you would go to heaven or hell?
Probably Hell right? Because a good judge has to punish the people who break the law.
If you were in a courtroom and you know you have committed the crime and you are about to get sentenced. You know it and the judge knows it! You know your screwed lol. Then the judge asks you that in order for you to be released, you have to pay your bail at 50,000. You don’t have the money. Instead someone comes in that you don’t even know and says I love you so much that I am going to pay your fine for you so you can be set free. This is exactly what Jesus did for you dude. 2000 years ago you took your sins on that cross and died for you. So that one day you can have eternal life. It’s a beautiful thing my man. Please I advised you to just look into this. Read John 3:16 until you fully come to grasp what God has done for you!

This should concern you. Because it concerns me and I don’t even know you man. But I love ya anyways! I know you probably don't believe in anything I'm saying but this is God’s law. Just give God a chance. He will meet you more than half way. Don't say you can't believe when you haven't given God a chance.

I hope this makes you think a little but thanks for your time...

-Kyle

Kyle-Oh said...

Meant to say in the first paragraph unless you are regenerated in Christ

Tiger said...

"I just want to share something with you. You are never going to really see the proof that God is real."

Then I'm never going to subscribe to your ridiculous belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your lord and master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a woman made out of a rib and a mound of dirt ate a magical apple after a talking snake told her to.

And why did Jesus need to die on the cross? Whenever one of my friends wrongs me, I don't need to brutally murder one of my children in order to forgive them. Why does God?

Anonymous said...

But surely the Jewish zombies could have just misunderstood what God is all about?
The point to rebut that some people "... [are] moved and feel the presence of God...."
A little harder than picking bronze-age on cave-dwellers?

Tiger said...

I felt the presence of fluffy pink unicorn-tiger hybrids the last time I did shrooms.

In all seriousness, emotional feelings are not the same thing as proof. Just because I feel someone behind me doesn't mean there actually is someone behind me.

GCT said...

"I just want to share something with you. You are never going to really see the proof that God is real."

I suppose by this you probably mean to say that I won't see the evidence because I have shut myself off from it? What a silly thing to say, however. If god truly wants me to believe, he would know what it takes for me to believe and would be able to do it. If he has no intention of doing so, then he created me simply for the purpose of throwing me in hell, which makes him an evil sadist.

"I just would love you to ask yourself these questions that I'm going to list below."

I've seen these questions before, and they amount to an emotional appeal (instead of a logical one) to a pascal's wager type non sequitor. Even if humans are all evil scum (why would god create such a race of beings, except to punish them in hell, again making him an evil sadist) that does not necessitate that god exist.

"Well Jesus said if you ever lust after someone you have committed adultery in your heart."

And Jesus is wrong, for multiple reasons. If I am un-attached and lust after another who is un-attached, there can be no adultery occurring, even if we grant the tenuous assertion that lust is tantamount to adultery.

"Well Jesus said if you ever hate someone you have murdered them in your heart."

And, again Jesus is wrong. Even if I hate someone, this does not equate to taking their life away from them. Why would I worship or believe in a god that can't even understand this not-too-subtle difference?

"I want to ask you now In Gods perfect eyes would you be innocent or guilty? You would probably be guilty right? Well then if your guilty do you think you would go to heaven or hell? Probably Hell right? Because a good judge has to punish the people who break the law."

god does not "have to" do anything. But, let's look at this, shall we? If I am being held to impossibly high standards of perfection, how is it my fault when I inevitably fail? Does this mean that I am worthy of infinite torture? Let's say that I've only ever done one thing wrong...let's say that I lied once to spare someone's feelings, which in your eyes makes me a liar. Therefore, lying once, to spare the feelings of another makes me worthy of eternal and infinite torture? Please.

And, this just shows how anti-human Xianity really is. We are created, through no fault of our own, already worthy of infinite torture? How anti-human can you get?

"If you were in a courtroom and you know you have committed the crime and you are about to get sentenced. You know it and the judge knows it! You know your screwed lol. Then the judge asks you that in order for you to be released, you have to pay your bail at 50,000."

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. We generally try to make the punishment fit the crime, so monetary fines don't cut it for murder. Your analogy falls apart right here.

"You don?t have the money. Instead someone comes in that you don?t even know and says I love you so much that I am going to pay your fine for you so you can be set free. This is exactly what Jesus did for you dude."

Since when does transference of "sin" somehow absolve the "sinner?" Let's say that Jesus does pay my fine...does that make me less guilty? Of course not. This is an extension of the OT practice of absolution of sins through the transference of them to an animal sacrifice, only the stakes were upped for the NT and it became a human/deity sacrifice.

"2000 years ago you took your sins on that cross and died for you. So that one day you can have eternal life. It?s a beautiful thing my man."

It's a beautiful thing that god couldn't forgive us for the sins he caused us to commit unless he sacrificed himself/his son in some blood-thirsty episode that somehow magically transfers our sins over to his entity thus allowing him to convince himself to forgive us after all? That's not beautiful, it's convoluted and makes no sense. It also places the onus of blame on us instead of the rightful owner, god.

"He will meet you more than half way. Don't say you can't believe when you haven't given God a chance."

This is demonstrably falsified by the fact that many atheists are deconverted Xians. IOW, they tried to meet god half-way (or more), they have given god a chance, and here they are as atheists now. Sorry, but the empirical evidence is against you.

Tigerboy said...

GCT:

Exactly right.

By the way, you can see Kirk Cameron asking every one of Kyle-Oh's questions on you tube:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVco8t-R8KU

Not very original, Kyle!

GCT said...

I believe it is called "The Way of the Master" or something like that. It's a Ray Comfort mess of an argument. If you don't know Ray Comfort, he's the one that claims that bananas are an atheist's worst nightmare, because they are so clearly "designed" to fit in your hand. (As one radio personality pointed out once, they can also fit in your butt.) Ask the atheist also treated this same line of apologetic:

Ask the atheist

Modusoperandi said...

It's quite simple to separate Truth from fiction:
1. God talks to you.
2. Satan talks to people that you disagree with.
There. Wasn't that simple? I should be an apologist.

GCT said...

Modus,
I've often stated that atheists could be better apologists than most Xians.

Joshua said...

Kyle-Oh, GCT summarized pretty well what is wrong with most of you said. But there's a more serious textual problem:

The 10 Commandents were never aimed at Christians. That's even before we get to the whole issue of what one means by the 10 Commandments. Nothing in the text indicates they are intended for anyone other than the Israelites just like the other 603 commandments.

GCT said...

Joshua, I suggest you see this post.

GCT said...

And here.

Modusoperandi said...

GCT; and may I remind you of this post.