OK, maybe someone can clear this up for me. Some Xians claim that one is saved by grace alone. That god has to come down and decide to impart his grace upon us in order for us to be saved.
So, it seems that no matter what we do, god will simply choose which people are saved, and which aren't. Where is the morality in that, and why would I wish to act in a moral way if it doesn't even matter?
Ah, but Xians have an answer for that, in that we have to repent and ask for forgiveness in order to receive god's grace. But, that's not salvation by grace alone, it's salvation by works and grace - the work being repentance and asking for forgiveness. So, which is it? Is salvation attained by grace alone or through works in conjunction with grace? If by grace alone, how does that make sense? If works are involved, then why claim that they aren't?
(Note: I have problems with the idea of works in conjunction with grace, but I'm not going into that in this particular post.)
8 comments:
"So, which is it? Is salvation attained by grace alone or through works in conjunction with grace? If by grace alone, how does that make sense? If works are involved, then why claim that they aren't?"
GCT,
You could ask that question to thousands of christians and each one will give you a different answer. When it comes to the plan of salvation there is little solidarity amoung its proponents.
I think they're talking about Sister Grace. She works at night across town and she charges a fee for a BJ, I mean salvation. Grace is good at it.
We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. The two are intertwined. It is by His grace the He provided our salvation and it is by faith we enter that salvation. And I don't mean "faith" as you often describe it, but as something of substance.
No number of good deeds can earn us salvation, that was made available by the grace of God through His work on the cross. All the work required for it is done. We simply have to step into it with the faith He has already given to us.
Like I said before if someone hands you a free gift you can leave it on the table or you can accept it as freely yours. I can give you something free, but I can't make you accept it.
Is there anything in your comment Karla that hasn't already been dealt with in the OP?
Let's see...
Salvation by grace...covered.
Have to believe, meaning a work...covered.
So, which is it? Do we have to do something to attain salvation, or is it by grace alone?
Karla,
If someone gives me an empty gift box, I don't think I'm going to accept it. No matter how pretty it's wrapped and how well they describe what's inside. If I open it and see nothing, then I'm not taking it.
Even if you describe the wonderment of the interior, if I see, feel, hear, smell, or any other way sense nothing, I don't want it.
Reminds me of a Family Guy episode where Peter (I think) drops nothing in a homeless guys coin cup and tells him that it was "hope" that he gave him.
Yay, I got an account!
Maynard, I'm not talking about an empty gift. I'm talking about the best gift on earth. Regardless a gift no matter how free requires a receiver to be actualized. This is not work, this is acceptance. Yes, active acceptance, but acceptance of work already done for you.
And yes, I agree Maynard if you can't experience it then it wouldn't be worth having. It's not something that you receive and put on a shelf in your mind. It is something all encompassing of every part of your life and being that is tangible experiential truth.
Anon, you did address what you perceive to be the Christian position in this matter, but not what actually is the Christian position. I do understand how you perceive it that way, just the same. It can look like you perceive it, but it is not.
Karla,
"Maynard, I'm not talking about an empty gift. I'm talking about the best gift on earth."
What, having god decide not to torture you for eternity for being born?
"Anon, you did address what you perceive to be the Christian position in this matter, but not what actually is the Christian position."
What actually is the position then? Is it by grace alone or by grace and works? It's not my fault that your theology is contradictory and can't make up its mind.
Thank you for shharing this
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