Thursday, 11 September 2008

Heaven or Free Will

Xians regularly claim that this world contains evil because we have free will. Having free will means that evil will necessarily exist. Therefore, god is not evil for allowing evil since he wishes for us to be free, autonomous agents capable of making decisions based on our free will.

Of course, the idea of free will with an omni-max deity is inherently contradictory, but let's grant that free will exists for a moment. The argument is that god can not imbue us with free will that causes us to want to do good, because that's not truly free. This is supposedly impossible. Yet, Xians claim that such a place exists - heaven. In heaven, there is no evil, and people strive to do what is good at all times, one would assume. Therefore, if it is impossible to have free will and eradicate evil, heaven must be a place where there is no free will. The Xian ideal, it seems would be to become an automaton for god - a robot, with no power to choose anything. Is this what eternal bliss is?

The Xian will no doubt object to this, saying that we must have free will in heaven, which means that it is possible for us to have free will and live in a world that is free from evil. The theist can not have it both ways. The Xian might also object and say that the people in heaven have used their free will to choose to be with god in heaven, thus free will is preserved. But, this only preserves the "choice" to go to heaven in this Earthly realm, not in heaven. Is one able to exercise one's free will in heaven and reject god? If so, and if this is "evil" then heaven is not a place free from evil and it is not eternal bliss.

Just another contradiction from the contradiction mines.


William Fenholt said...

I was actually raised in an extremely fundamentalist fashion within the evangelical movement and I can tell you first hand that christians believe there is no free will in heaven. Well, in the denomination that I was brought up in that was the case. (Four square)

Anonymous said...

"Story" by Steven James

To answer your questions...

GCT said...

Um, could you be just a bit more specific?

Karla said...

Being a Christian is about freely surrendering our will to run our lives our way to His will which is the best way for us to live. Heaven is the perfect fulfillment of that endevour. We have fully entered into His Will. The process has reached it's culmination, it's perfection, it's full glory. We have become one with Christ and all the sinful nature has been replaced and we are new creatures no longer with imperfect physical bodies of sin, but perfect everlasting bodies. To be so united with the Lord is such a wonderful way is pure joy.

Why do you hate Jesus? What fault do you find with Him? Most who don't believe He is God and think Him merely a man at least say he was a good man. Why not you?

GCT said...

So, Karla, care to answer the objection that was brought up in the OP, or are you going to preach some more?

And, to answer your question, I don't actually hate Jesus, since Jesus is a fictitious character. It's impossible to hate something you don't believe exists. The title is hyperbole.

Further, if Jesus existed, it's pretty certain that he didn't do or say most of the things attributed to him in the Bible, so we really can't judge whether he was good or not. Even if we grant that the Bible is accurate, he says some good things and some really bad things. See my previous post on this.