Where's the Body?

OK, so if Jesus wasn't resurrected, why didn't all his detractors produce the body?

How many times have we all run across this little gem? It's an argument that apologists like William Lane Craig like to use, because they think it's a good argument. But, it only works if you make certain assumptions that can't be supported (i.e. begging the question). But, let's tackle it anyway, shall we?

There's a fatal flaw in this question in that it assumes that what is recounted in the Bible is really what happened - that Jesus lived, preached, died on the cross, that there was a real, dead body, that later people came and moved the boulder away, and found Jesus was alive and healthy. If you assume all this to be true, then it makes sense that people seeking to discredit Jesus would produce his corpse and say, "Here it is." I mean, c'mon, if groups of people are running around proclaiming that the guy you just killed came back to life, and you had his corpse, you'd show them, wouldn't you?

Except, we have no assurance that any of that actually happened! We know that the gospels are all written well after the events that they supposedly tell about, by people who weren't there. After 50 years or so, it's not at all surprising to think that the legend of Jesus could have taken on numerous stories about the things he did (turning water into wine, coming back from the dead, healing lepers, etc). Look at the cult worship that people have for Elvis and you get a sense of what urban legend can become for people who have sincerely held beliefs.

And, that's what is most likely in this case, that the gospel stories are urban legend. Jesus could be a made-up figure, or simply a traveling preacher that taught his brand of Judaism. It's likely that he was never crucified or even if he was that his body wasn't tossed into an unmarked grave and forgotten about, only to have later stories claim that he was resurrected and later Xians claim that the soldiers should have presented his body at the time. Yet, it's absurd to require the soldiers to present the body of a person who died before that person was written into the part of a god. It's just another bad example of apologetics that don't work.

Like Cattle to the Slaughter

I actually recently ran across an argument that god sent Jesus to us in order to save us and change the paradigm between the OT and the NT, and that he had to wait in order to allow the conditions to be correct, which is why we had an OT and a Jesus-less world up until the time of Jesus. When faced with arguments like this, it's hard not to ask, "Are you serious?"

The obvious objections are that god, being omnipotent, would not have to wait for any conditions to come true, especially not just to decide to forgive us for our supposed sins against him. What possible conditions are there that god could not overcome? This, once again, makes god somewhat less than omnipotent (which is easy to do since an omnipotent god is so hard to actually argue for). There's also the problem that this doesn't account for the bloodthirsty attributes of the god of the OT. If he was simply waiting for conditions to allow us to be "saved" by Jesus, it doesn't make sense that he would be as cruel, petty, vindictive, and evil as the OT shows him to be.

But, apart from all that, one problem really stands out to me, which is that this argument reduces all the people that came before Jesus into simple cattle playing out some part - being slaughtered until this god was satisfied in his blood lust and would allow us individuals (post Jesus) to live a life with the possibility of salvation. How arrogant (not that the normal Xian perspective isn't arrogant, but this is just piling on). When you can view all of pre-Jesus humanity as simply cattle that are playing a part to pave the way for your personal salvation, I'd say that you've lost all perspective of what it really means to be human.

John 3:16

"3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I'm sure we are all familiar with this passage. But, how many of us have thought about what it really means? An omni-max entity created beings that are fallible and therefore can't live up to the standards he set for them and do bad things (sometimes at his bidding no less) and the only way he can think of to forgive them is to father a child and have it be tortured....and somehow this makes sense?

What twisted mind decided that torturing one person for the "sins" of another would make everything OK? Why is god so keen on torture anyway? He creates hell to torture those that don't measure up, then makes sure that no one measures up. Then, he says, "Sorry that I have to torture you in hell for eternity, but I'll make it up to you by torturing my son." "Sorry that you aren't perfect, but I'll make it up to you by torturing my son." As if that makes anything better?

Of course, looking back we can see what was going on. The Jews had practiced ritual sacrifice of animals for a long time before this. It was believed that one could cleanse one's soul by offering up an animal to one's offended god. (Actually, this was not simply a Jewish custom, but was quite popular.) Xianity just took it one step further, by offering a sacrifice of a human and/or a living god. But we know that sin transference is not reality, so why do Xians still cling to these myths?

(Note: before anyone starts using the paid ticket example, fines are different from criminal activity or "sin." So, before you start to put that in the comments, think twice please.)

God's Plans

Does god have plans for you? Does god have plans for the universe? Can god's plans be upset? IOW, can you do something that violates what god has planned; something that makes god's plan not turn out the way he planned? I think that if you believe in the omni-max god that most Xians believe in, the answer is no.

So, what does that mean? That means that everything that happens, does so according to god's plan. That everything you think, say, do, etc. is all according to the plan that god set forth from the beginning of the universe. The inescapable next step is to realize that when people go to hell, this must also be part of god's plan. god has planned that people will go to hell where they will suffer for all of eternity; where they will be tortured. god is supposedly all-loving omni-benevolent, however, which sets up a contradictory situation in that an all-loving, omni-benevolent deity has intentionally set up a plan where most (as per the Bible) people will be tortured for eternity.

There are, of course, other ramifications to consider, like the story of Adam and Eve where god punishes us and passes their "sins" onto all of us through hereditary means which must have been planned all along. (As an aside, I've heard some Xian claim that this was done so that Jesus could come along a couple thousand years later to save us all, thus begging the question as to why god felt it was a good idea to make us all need saving just so he could come and save us, but whatever.) There's also the story of Noah's ark, where god knew that humanity would disbelieve and that he would kill off almost all of humanity, which he must have planned to do from the very start. There are others as well, but I won't go into them all. Suffice it to say that god can not have the attributes that most Xians ascribe to him while simultaneously holding to the doctrines of Xianity, as they are internally inconsistent and self-contradictory.

Jesus and Family

Do Xians love their families? According to Jesus, they shouldn't. First he preaches that children who don't honor their parents should be killed - as the OT law says (Matt 15:4-7); but then he contradicts himself: we should not call our fathers dad, since only god can be "father" (Matt 23:9). We should abandon our families for god (Matt 19:29), etc.

In one particularly telling passage Jesus, in Luke 14:26, instructs his followers to hate their father mother wife children brethren and sisters. Wow. It doesn't stop there though. He even says that one must hate oneself in order to be a follower of him. So, how many of you Xians hate yourselves? Is that healthy?

What I have to put up with

"I checked out the site very briefly. Presenting the gospel to a militant atheist seems to me to be a waste of time, since the person has apparently already rejected the gospel. Jesus told His disciples to wipe their feet as a testimony against those who rejected the gospel they presented, and not to cast pearls to swine (in other words, don't waste your time trying to tell someone the Good News of the gospel if they obviously refuse to accept it). Though only God can change hearts, and He can change any heart He chooses to change [for example, Saul, a persecutor of the Church, was changed by God to become Paul, the greatest Christian missionary of all time]; nevertheless, unless I feel led by the Lord to witness to someone who has apparently already rejected the gospel of Jesus Christ, I don't see much purpose in it, other than merely starting a fight, which is pointless. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. However, we can and should pray for him to come to Christ, so that he will not suffer eternal torment in Hell."

Heaven?

There is something inescapably immature about the philosophical belief that when we die we are sent to a magical paradise where all our dreams come true. Or maybe that's just me. It is consoling when Fido's being scraped of the windscreen. The idea has been effective in keeping the poor in their place throughout history: it doesn't matter if you spend all your life in appalling conditions making money for someone else if your duration is only a fraction of an eternity in Eden.

What confuses me is the lifestyle of people who really do have faith. Surely anyone who is certain they will be rewarded so richly will not take any chances. 50% of America's population should be crowding round the poor in Africa and Asia. And why does death grieve people who 'know' their loved ones will be with them again in somewhere other than a comparative shithole?

Maybe that's just my depressive cynicism. But what's for certain is that until people realise that this is probably 'it' then we will continue destroying our planet.