Saturday, 24 May 2008

Creation


How many of you theists think that god is perfect? If so, then why create the universe? Did god have needs and desires that were unfulfilled? If so, then god is not perfect. Did god create the universe in order to experience something? If so, then god is not perfect.

Also, do you believe that god is omni-benevolent and perfect? Then, by definition, god is maximally good, right? Then, why create a universe that has evil in it? The only answer to this is so that god could bring about more good, but this defeats the idea that god is perfect and that god is maximally good. Theists like to think that the fact that we are here somehow is evidence for their god, but it actually argues against it.

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

I tend to agree with you... There is a new book out that has a chapter that's titled, Even God Isn't Perfect, and talks about the strange modern notion of perfection that causes everyone to be always disapointed.

The book is God in the Wilderness by Rabbi Jamie Korngold.

href="http://www.godinthewilderness.com/">http://www.GodInTheWilderness.com/

Question of Identity said...

????

God's not perfect because he likes to create????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Tigerboy said...

We know Question of Identity likes to create.

Create lies about transitional fossils, and then disappear.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps Gods purpose wasn't perfection????

Maybe this universe is a rehearsal for the next???

I don't know???

GCT said...

QOI,
Yes.

If god were perfect, then he would have no needs or wants.

GCT said...

"Perhaps Gods purpose wasn't perfection????

Maybe this universe is a rehearsal for the next???

I don't know???"

Why does a perfect being need to rehearse?

Anonymous said...

I was talking about the Universe. Not God

GCT said...

Why does the universe need to rehearse then?

In all seriousness, I think I see what you are saying, but it begs the question as to why god created beings that need a rehearsal. An omni-max deity could have eliminated the middleman and saved us from a whole lot of suffering in the process.

TheNerd said...

Obviously, the God of the Bible is not THE GOD. But to say that a god who would create our universe is not perfect depends entirely upon human constructs, including the human definitions of the words "perfect" and "evil". There simply is no "perfection" or "evil" outside of human consciousness.

The closest you could possibly come to a non-human definition of "perfection" is "homogenous". The universe is obviously not homogenous. But does that make it not perfect? Only if there is an absolute perfection, independant of humanity's awareness of it.

One thing is sure: this universe was not created for humanity's sake, nor with humanity in mind (in which case, there might as well not have been a Creator at all, as far as we're concerned). In this respect, Christianity will always fall short of reality.

GCT said...

thenerd,
I was arguing along theological lines. If god created, it would have been because he lacked something. If he was lacking in something, then he is not perfect. Agents create because they feel some need to create due to a lack or void in some respect. Perfect beings should not feel this lack or void.

ChriS & Yvette Ferguson said...

May I suggest that you read Knowledge of the Holy by A.W. Tozer.

If you truly want to see where you are asking the right questions but coming to an incomplete conclusion-this book will answer a lot.

God is perfect and this book will answer the Why God created. I am not going to put it forth here because I'd merely be a poor echo and you'd be inclined to "debate" rather than discover. So I urge you to read it, btw it is a short read!

GCT said...

C&YF,
"If you truly want to see where you are asking the right questions but coming to an incomplete conclusion-this book will answer a lot."

How do you know I'm coming to an incomplete conclusion? (By that, I assume you mean that my conclusions are wrong - but I don't know how you can know that, since we can't know that god exists.)