Saturday, 5 April 2008

God?

If God doesn't mean there to be starvation then he's not omnipotent; if God does mean there to be starvation then why worship the bastard; if only man is made in the image of God and only man sins then why is there so much pain, starvation and suffering in the animal kingdom?

If God only sends those who acknowledge him to paradise then why create those who are prone to infidelity and why so much evidence against himself? Why send one Jewish person to tell the 'truth' when he could've just made everyone Jesus. A whole planet full of Christs.

See how he never exerts his wrath on the gentiles anymore? We had a bit of rain down in England but "two cats soaked" hardly compares to "everyone except Noah." They didn't even think about abortion in Gomorrah. They weren't even that liberal three thousand years ago.

I think God's given up and moved somewhere more conservative. When they stopped stoning people in Alabama that was it for Jesus.

14 comments:

Jeremiah said...

If God doesn't mean there to be starvation then he's not omnipotent; if God does mean there to be starvation then why worship the bastard; if only man is made in the image of God and only man sins then why is there so much pain, starvation and suffering in the animal kingdom?

Maybe it was because of 'sin'?

If God only sends those who acknowledge him to paradise then why create those who are prone to infidelity and why so much evidence against himself?

Not exactly. God sends no one to paradise or to torment. Each man's destiny is dependent upon his decision - For example - If say, someone told me that a red-hot stove eye will burn me if I touch it, then based upon my choices I will either escape getting burned or thusly, touch the hot stove eye and be burned. There are many life-lessons of trial and error which relate to the physical body, which, in essence, are an example of the meta-physical or Spiritual, the real of existence, in which we will ultimately spend eternity, either in torment or through obedience and faith in God's Word with Him in heaven. Also, there's nothing that any man can do physically that would merit them the riches of heaven. Nothing that I can do physically that I would deserve such a reward...but only a desire and ambition to serve my Lord and Savior Jesus Chirst...It comes from the heart...not the hands. Why would God need praise from your hands? He made them. See?

Why send one Jewish person to tell the 'truth' when he could've just made everyone Jesus. A whole planet full of Christs.

Yeah, why do that, and everybody would be the same....I don't think God wanted robots, friend....He wants people to serve Him out of their own willingness to do so. And....Who can question the Almighty?

See how he never exerts his wrath on the gentiles anymore?

Jew or Gentile, Saved or Sinner, all are the same in God's eyes...which, in this He proved by sending His One and Only Son Jesus Christ to die for every man's sin, from Adam the first man, all the way out to the last man who will ever live.

We had a bit of rain down in England but "two cats soaked" hardly compares to "everyone exept Noah." They didn't even think about abortion in Gomorrah. They weren't even that liberal three thousand years ago.

I don't think Gomorrah was concerned about their wickedness....however, God fixed it so they wouldn't have to worry about it--He destroyed that place.

I think God's given up and moved somewhere more conservative. When they stopped stoning people in Alabama that was it for Jesus.

He's right here, my friend, always has been, and always will be!

Jeremiah @ Conservatives United!

GCT said...

Because of sin, an all-loving god allows blameless children to starve and suffer? Does that make sense to you Jeremiah?

"Not exactly. God sends no one to paradise or to torment. Each man's destiny is dependent upon his decision - For example - If say, someone told me that a red-hot stove eye will burn me if I touch it, then based upon my choices I will either escape getting burned or thusly, touch the hot stove eye and be burned."

By creating the system in which we live, god has created a system whereby most of us will go to hell for eternal torment. Does this seem like an all-loving god to you? Do you really think that people choose hell?

"Why would God need praise from your hands? He made them. See?"

No, I don't see. Why would a perfect being "need" anything? Why would god creating us necessitate that god would need us to praise him? If god is perfect, why should god need or desire praise at all?

"I don't think God wanted robots, friend...."

What makes you think you aren't a robot? Let's for the sake of argument assume that free will is not logically impossible with an omni-max god. In that case, you would probably say that your free will is what makes you not a robot, correct? Well, when you get to heaven, do you have that free will anymore? Are you able to do evil things in heaven? I think you would argue that you can't commit evil in heaven, correct, so where is your free will then? In the end, it seems that god does want robots, because that's what you will be in heaven.

"He wants people to serve Him out of their own willingness to do so."

He wants love or servitude? Isn't there a difference?

"Jew or Gentile, Saved or Sinner, all are the same in God's eyes...which, in this He proved by sending His One and Only Son Jesus Christ to die for every man's sin, from Adam the first man, all the way out to the last man who will ever live."

Did he really? He attached a price to that act of Jesus in that one must believe that Jesus died for our sins in order to collect. He also created at least some of us to not believe. So, did he really send Jesus down for all of us?

Anyway, how does that even make sense? What did Jesus dying have to do with "sins" that I may or may not commit thousands of years into the future? How did killing an innocent man make things better? Why did god need to kill something in order to allow himself to forgive us for the sins he caused us to commit?

"I don't think Gomorrah was concerned about their wickedness....however, God fixed it so they wouldn't have to worry about it--He destroyed that place."

Is that what you would expect from an all-loving god, to simply destroy people and cities?

"He's right here, my friend, always has been, and always will be!"

Evidence please? Kthnxbai.

MR. X said...

GCT: are you interested in becoming a writer for my blog? If so, send your adress to:

Mr.X.jnr@gmail.com

Jeremiah said...

Because of sin, an all-loving god allows blameless children to starve and suffer? Does that make sense to you Jeremiah?

GCT,

I can never know all the answers, but I do know that God sees, God knows, and God cares. I also know that God is in everything which is, and which is to come, because He is everlasting, there is not time to God.

It makes no sense to the foolish at heart to think that God could be such a kind and loving Creator, and then see some go without, and others living healthy and strong, and that was His original plan in the beginning, by giving man free will to choose, He was bestowing part of Himself to His Creation in the likeness and image of Himself, through the freedom to choose our own paths with every beautiful and living thing at his fingertips to enjoy and marvel at, on His terms and conditions they could have it all, freely, that was His love. However, when man chose to do otherwise, after all that God had done for them, He became sorry that He done such a work, and thus, it affected everything within man's reach, even man himself, through confounding his thoughts and actions, creating confusion, suffering, pain and sickness, every living things was affected so that a consequence would result. Yet, man continued to sin, and his heart was hardened, he became more wicked as time progressed, and He looked for someone, anyone, who loved Him, He found Noah and his family, they only ones who acknowledged that they were reliant upon God's grace to be sustained. It was no coincidence that God had to take mankind form the earth when He did, or else there would be no escape from the fate that would have destroyed man from within--much the same as today, we see America in the shape that it is in, because they choose not to acknowledge their source for hope, in turning their backs against Him. However, a judgment day is coming.

By creating the system in which we live, god has created a system whereby most of us will go to hell for eternal torment. Does this seem like an all-loving god to you?

If this was a system which God created so that all would go to hell, then He would have not spared Noah and his family from the flood, and most importantly, He would have not sent His One and Only Son Jesus Christ to die for our sins, and provide a way to heaven.

Do you really think that people choose hell?

People choose their own paths in life, that's part of the free will that God gave to man, and as He has Created everything that has been made, men are thusly, without excuse.

No, I don't see.

That's understandable, because you willfully choose to shut out everything that is around you and not acknowledge your minute existence within a universe so great in size.

Why would a perfect being "need" anything?

He doesn't need a thing. It is you who is standing in need, for it is 'He' whose plan of Creation included you in it.

Why would god creating us necessitate that god would need us to praise him? If god is perfect, why should god need or desire praise at all?

That's up to you. I can't persuade you, and God won't force you. The power of persuasion was placed in your midst of all that you can see, hear, and feel--as He breathed the breath of life in you.

What makes you think you aren't a robot?

Because I can choose to believe that this world is in temporal existence by my own existence being made temporal as are all things--there are millions of different forms of life, each are their own individual beings, there is only one God.

Let's for the sake of argument assume that free will is not logically impossible with an omni-max god. In that case, you would probably say that your free will is what makes you not a robot, correct? Well, when you get to heaven, do you have that free will anymore? Are you able to do evil things in heaven? I think you would argue that you can't commit evil in heaven, correct, so where is your free will then? In the end, it seems that god does want robots, because that's what you will be in heaven.

It is a question of value--If God had not value, or better termed - Love, you as His Creation, would you exist?

He wants love or servitude? Isn't there a difference?

It's a combination of the two. He wants you to serve Him through love, but you don't have to, it's up to you--free will.

Did he really?

If He hadn't, where would you be today?

He attached a price to that act of Jesus in that one must believe that Jesus died for our sins in order to collect. He also created at least some of us to not believe. So, did he really send Jesus down for all of us?

Before Jesus came, man, through his refusal to believe that God still loved him - there was only one way that He could prove it to him, through sending His One and Only Son Jesus Christ as an example of what the Father God, Our Creator is like, and through Jesus's example, many were healed and many became saved, and through twelve ordinary men, He turned the world upside down, as He endowed them with the ability to speak in each of the world's different languages, yet, the world still refused to accept His love and forgiveness, although, as we look around, over 2 billion still proclaim His awesome power, a fact that can never be changed, How? Because He lives in the hearts of those who have faith that He is able to deliver.

Anyway, how does that even make sense? What did Jesus dying have to do with "sins" that I may or may not commit thousands of years into the future?

You sin everyday, when you deny His very existence. One of the very worst sins, blaspheming His Holy Spirit.

How did killing an innocent man make things better?

By providing you an escape.

Why did god need to kill something in order to allow himself to forgive us for the sins he caused us to commit?

God never caused you sin, no, it was Satan, through temptation and through you choice, you decided to go ahead and give in to temptation and thus, sin. You conscience is a forebearer to the things that you will commit in the future. However, there comes a time when God no longer calls to a person who continually rejects the calling of His Holy Spirit, to that end, one is considered a reprobate have no conscience as their are enslaved to their own desires which are from none other than Satan himself. A dangerous and very sad situation.

Is that what you would expect from an all-loving god, to simply destroy people and cities?

It's His Creation, so, I'm not about to question the things that He's done and will do. I will just continue to give thanks and praise and know that He is in it.

Evidence please?

I can't do your searching for you. The more you question, the more you won't know...Life is too short to do that, my friend.

Take care.

--Jeremiah--

MR. X said...

"you willfully choose to shut out everything that is around you and not acknowledge your minute existence within a universe so great in size."

See my post: "The Problem With Religion

Jeremiah said...

The problem is not religion.

The problem is sin. See my post above.

--Jeremiah--

MR. X said...

I'll assume you read the post, which was about the arrogance of an asumption that of the billions of planets that could possibly sustain life, of the trillions of life-forms on that planet, some higher power cares about you individually.

atheos said...

Jeremiah, more than 5 million children under the age of 5 years old die of starvation-related causes EVERY YEAR.

What is their sin, exactly?

GCT said...

Mr. X,
I'll be sending you an email shortly. Thank you.

Jeremiah,
"I can never know all the answers, but I do know that God sees, God knows, and God cares."

So, when faced with an obvious problem with god's love, you simply shrug your shoulders and re-assert that god loves you? How do you know any of this? What evidence do you have that god loves you? The evidence that I have is the fact that children are starving, children that have never sinned in their lives - and yes, you may invoke original sin, but does that really make sense?

"However, when man chose to do otherwise, after all that God had done for them, He became sorry that He done such a work..."

How can a perfect being feel sorry? Didn't god mess up there, so god wasn't so perfect after all? Didn't god know that man would choose otherwise before setting off on this grand adventure? Do you see the problem with this?

"...He looked for someone, anyone, who loved Him, He found Noah and his family, they only ones who acknowledged that they were reliant upon God's grace to be sustained."

Why is a perfect being so needy? Why did he destroy the world? It didn't really help, did it? The world still contained "wicked" people shortly after the flood, didn't it? It seems as though god killed a whole lot of people for no gain. Wouldn't an omni-max being know this ahead of time? Also, why would an all-loving god not be able to find another way than wiping out all of the humanity that he supposedly loves?

"If this was a system which God created so that all would go to hell, then He would have not spared Noah and his family from the flood, and most importantly, He would have not sent His One and Only Son Jesus Christ to die for our sins, and provide a way to heaven."

I didn't say "all" did I? Anyway, even with Jesus, most people will go to hell. Does that seem loving to you?

"People choose their own paths in life, that's part of the free will that God gave to man, and as He has Created everything that has been made, men are thusly, without excuse."

Really? You think I choose not to believe? You think I choose not to see the non-existent evidence? If god supposedly loves us so much and wants us to believe in him, why does he stay so well hidden and elusive? Seems to me that if I really loved someone, I would want that person to know I was there.

"That's understandable, because you willfully choose to shut out everything that is around you and not acknowledge your minute existence within a universe so great in size."

Not only are you wrong about my knowing how minute our existence is, you've failed to address the issue. I don't see why a perfect being needs anything. Why does a perfect being need or desire anything?

"He doesn't need a thing. It is you who is standing in need, for it is 'He' whose plan of Creation included you in it."

So, god doesn't need our praise? That doesn't jibe with your original comment. Please clear up the inconsistency.

"Because I can choose to believe..."

If I do gain posting privileges here, I'll do a post on free will and why it's impossible with the Xian god, but suffice it to say that your answer is sorely lacking. You may have the illusion of free will without actual free will, and you would never know the difference, would you?

"It is a question of value--If God had not value, or better termed - Love, you as His Creation, would you exist?"

Mind answering the question please? In heaven, do you think you'll have free will?

If god loves me, then why would he create a sinner that is bound for hell?

"It's a combination of the two. He wants you to serve Him through love, but you don't have to, it's up to you--free will."

So, god wants us to love him by serving him? Is this like plantation owners in the South hundreds of years ago thinking that their slaves should love them?

"If He hadn't, where would you be today?"

Again, this makes no sense. If I don't go to heaven, then Jesus did not die for my sins. Most people are destined for hell, so those people did not receive the "gift" of Jesus, did they? Yet, they are here, are they not?

"...there was only one way that He could prove it [love] to him, through sending His One and Only Son Jesus Christ..."

god could think of no other way to show love to us than sending part of himself down to die a horrible death so that he could convince himself to forgive us? Huh?

"One of the very worst sins, blaspheming His Holy Spirit."

I guess I'm done for then, huh? Isn't that the one sin that can't be forgiven?

"By providing you an escape."

How does killing an "innocent" man provide an escape for me? That's the point. Should the state release a convicted murderer if an innocent person decides to die for that murderer? Does that make sense to you? And, to top it off, would it make sense to let the murderer go, but only if he truly believed that the innocent person died for him?

"God never caused you sin, no, it was Satan..."

If you hold to the doctrine of original sin, then god caused all of us to sin by deciding that sin should be an inherited trait. Either way, god is complicit in all this. Did he not know what would happen? He did nothing to stop it and even played dumb after it happened.

"It's His Creation, so, I'm not about to question the things that He's done and will do. I will just continue to give thanks and praise and know that He is in it."

So, even though he commits genocide, you're happy about it? Why should you be thankful to live under an oppressive genocidal tyrant? Why do you feel that you can not question his actions? Also, since he created you, does that give him license to abuse you, or does it mean that he has a moral obligation to you to treat you humanely? Parents are not given carte blanche to abuse their children, so why would we grant that right to god?

"I can't do your searching for you. The more you question, the more you won't know...Life is too short to do that, my friend."

So, you have no evidence, and you're advising me not to look, because life is too short to look for it? Strange.

Anonymous said...

Yeah. And wouldn't everyone be a hideous inbred if we are all descended from eight people?

pilgrim said...

Brothers and Sisters in Christ

The goal of these men are obvious--Let us not waste time with foolish arguments and long defenses. This has been going on for nearly 2000 years. Let us continue to build each other up in our most holy faith, keeping our eyes upward and our minds on things above. Those who are drawn to Christ will find him, for He finds all of His lost sheep.

But these men are not open to dialogue, only ridicule and persecution. Indeed, their knowledge puffs them up, and they will only continue to try and put us to shame with their tests, their questions and their fine sounding arguments. Let us be like sheep and remain silent and dumb.

Brothers and sisters, the Son of Man is coming--let no man tell you otherwise--and when He is revealed from the heavens with power and glory, our hope and vindication will be made manifest. Keep your eyes on the shepherd of your souls.

Grace and peace...

MR. X said...

Pilgrim: I'm all for freedom of speech but, as Orwell said, "it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt".

Jennifer said...

I would like to give the explanation that my very Christian mother gives- to these type of concerns, not because I agree with it (I certainly do not - I'm an agnostic), but because I'd like to take this debate to the next level, so here goes:

Devout Christians argue that what looks like irrational human suffering is all part of God's plan. We, as "lowly people," cannot understand God's plan because we only see the small disjointed parts of it. To use an analogy, imagine we are two dimensional whereas God is acting in 3 dimensions - we only see the parts as they pass through our two dimensional world but God sees, and in fact controls, the entire picture in which we move...

GCT said...

I'm glad that god makes us to suffer so that he can achieve some plan...even though it seems to me that an omni-max being could have conceived of a better plan.