Saturday, 19 April 2008

Prayer


Why do Xians pray? Apart from the fact that prayer studies have shown that prayer is not effective, does it really make sense to pray? Does god not know what you want to have happen? Isn't god aware of everything? Do you really think that god will heal some child of cancer if you simply remind him that he should?

BTW, why does Jesus pray? Isn't he simply praying to himself? What's the point in that?

16 comments:

Steven Bently I said...

The act of prayer is only a symbolic gesture for appearence sake, prayer has no effect on anything except for projection, to appear to the viewer that they have a personal open line to their god. Prayer - a self-righteous sanctimonious gesture.

Jesus supposedly commanded people not to openly pray, but even the supposed word of their god man means absolutely nothing to a Christian.

xtian says - "I'll pray if I want to, even Jesus cannot stop me."

Anonymous said...

For folks so bent on complete proof, where does "steven" get off making the statement "prayer has no effect on anything except for projection, ..."? Your proof, sir?

One more reminder, and this is a statistical fact...there are fewer atheists than any belief system.

Oh, yes, even having no faith in a supreme being is a belief system. So, welcome to the rest of the world.

GCT said...

"For folks so bent on complete proof, where does "steven" get off making the statement "prayer has no effect on anything except for projection, ..."? Your proof, sir?"

Double blind experiments have shown that prayer has no effect on the real world. If you have evidence to the contrary, we'd all like to see it.

"One more reminder, and this is a statistical fact...there are fewer atheists than any belief system."

And your point is? Popularity does not determine what is true.

"Oh, yes, even having no faith in a supreme being is a belief system."

And I suppose that bald is a hair color? Not collecting stamps is a hobby? It is not a belief system, it is the realization that no belief system has yet met its burden of proof to show that there is a deity or a reason to follow that belief system.

Steven Bently I said...

To anonymous, Ok just to prove me wrong.

What prayer should I or you or anyone else pray that would prove without a single doubt to me or to anyone else that, that particular prayer request or any prayer request has become answered and proves without a doubt that prayer is in fact true?

Now is your glorious chance to prove me wrong.

Actually you, like millions of other xtians are grossly misinformed. Atheism is the lack of belief in anything unproven to exist.

You like millions of Christians are in fact Atheist's yourselves, if you do not believe in Allah or Zeus or Mirtha or Thor or any of the thousands of previous gods, then you are in fact yourself an Atheist to those gods.

Why do you not believe in mythological gods, but choose to believe in the Bible god without any proof?

Just because a book has Holy written on it, does that justify and prove it as being a Holy book?

Why did you happen to believe in the Christian bible god, was it because you researched all the other gods and rejected them and found the Christian god to be the only one with absolute proof to exist?

I hardly think so, you chose the bible god because you were told it was true, not because you were presented with any proof.

Did the Bible god speak to you personally and tell you that Christianity was true?

No, it's what you have personally have chosen to believe.

Christianity is a belief, a belief that is passed down from people to people.

You have chosen to believe that a person without any beliefs is unworthy and less than a person than you, but it is only because you have been told that.

You must realize that what you have been told by others, is what you have chosen to believe, because it makes you feel good about yourself, it puts you on a pedestal.

I can imagine that you think you are for some reason, think that you're a better person than a Muslim, or a Jew, or a Morman, or a Hindu, or a Buddhist, because you have been told that Christianity is the best and truest religion that there is, but this is what you have been told, by whom? Other Christians.

So welcome to Atheism and don't ever put Atheism down, because you are an Atheist too.

Anonymous said...

Steven -

Please point me to where these "double blind experiments" are spelled out. I will read them.

Saying there is proof that prayer does not work is laughable. That's even more absurd than the "big bang" theory.

I do not believe because I have been told to do so. If it makes you feel better to think otherwise, knock yourself out.

I am not better than anyone else. I just believe differently.

You calling me an atheist is as true as me calling you a Christian.

Relax...take a chill pill. Just because I don't believe as you do, doesn't mean I am taking shots at you.

Can we say "paranoid" boys and girls?

Steven Bently I said...

anony, It is so obvious that you are confused. You conviently change the subject and quote me as something someone else said, the challenge was to you was.

What prayer should I or you or anyone else pray that would prove without a single doubt to me or to anyone else that, that particular prayer request or any prayer request has become answered and proves without a doubt that prayer is in fact true?


Then you conviently dismiss this fact: You like millions of Christians are in fact Atheist's yourselves, if you do not believe in Allah or Zeus or Mirtha or Thor or any of the thousands of previous gods, then you are in fact yourself an Atheist to those gods.


Then you go off in a tangent and say such BS as chill out, I get those type of responce from misinformed teenagers, in an vein attempt to make me appear to be angry or irrational.

It's very obvious you're very immature minded. Thanks for waisting my time.

MR. X said...

Atheism isn't a belief system anon; it's the opposite. And if the Big Bang Theory is absurd to you then: "a big man with a beard did it" should be also.

Anonymous said...

Steven -

I apologize for attributing the absurd ideas to you.

There is only one, true God. You obviously don't believe in Him..so what?

Call me whatever you want, but "atheist" will never be true.

Here's a new one...why do we never hear about all the help atheists give to those less fortunate than us (financial, volunteer work, taking someone in without a home)?

I read constant put-downs about what kind of God allows suffering. What do you do to help alleviate it?

Once again, as is so often the case in this blog, if someone doesn't believe what you believe, they are "immature minded".

GCT said...

"Please point me to where these "double blind experiments" are spelled out. I will read them."

Dawkins points out one such study:
H. Benson et al., "Study of the therapeutic effects of intercessory prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients", American Heart Journal 151: 4, 2006, 934-42

In this study, there were no differences between the control group and the group that was prayed for and didn't know they were prayed for. The group that did know about the prayer actually fared worse than the other two groups. I'd also recommend looking up Shermer's work.

"Saying there is proof that prayer does not work is laughable. That's even more absurd than the "big bang" theory."

There is no proof that prayer works, and a body of evidence that shows that it doesn't work. There's also a wide body of evidence that points to the big bang as real.

"I am not better than anyone else. I just believe differently."

This is quite a concession from a theist! If you truly are selected by god or if belief in your god gives you some sort of moral boost, then it should be evident. That you don't seem to subscribe to this philosophy is odd but welcome.

"Here's a new one...why do we never hear about all the help atheists give to those less fortunate than us (financial, volunteer work, taking someone in without a home)?"

That's simply not true, although the focus on religious charities in this country makes for the misperception that you have (as well as the number of theists in this country).

"I read constant put-downs about what kind of God allows suffering. What do you do to help alleviate it?"

Constant put downs? Of who or what, and please elaborate on where these put downs are. Please be specific.

One thing we could do to help alleviate suffering would be stop fighting over who has the better god.

"Once again, as is so often the case in this blog, if someone doesn't believe what you believe, they are "immature minded"."

So often the case? Again, specific examples please.

Steven Bently I said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Steven Bently I said...

to anony.

You're right, I personally do not care about other people's problems, because I did not bring them into the world.

Here's a good quote:

"God helps them that help themselves."

Now that you've been seen so admirable and brave on here, how about go down to the hospital and donate a kidney or an eyeball or a lung or your heart, you're such a sympathetic Christian.

Mostly pathetic.

You've managed to derail these comments addressed to you just as you intended to do.

Any chance your first name is Corey?

Anonymous said...

Steven -

If speaking honestly about what I believe and feel makes me pathetic to you...oh well, I've been called worse.

No, my name isn't even close to being "Corey".

GCT -

Thank you for the STEP references. I will read them.

"Put down" specifics...the smiling goobers on the front page of the blog. The blond guy looks like Owen Wilson on drugs.

"Immature minded" specifics...see Steven's recent posts.

alex said...

prayers probably brought one into a state of mind when one can maximize his potentiality.

short prayers don't work.
thats why christians are usually encouraged to pray really really hard in order to achieve the performing state of mind.

GCT said...

You find a picture to be "constant putdowns?" I fail to see how that constitutes what you said as well, "I read constant put-downs about what kind of God allows suffering." Are you upset and do you think it a putdown to criticize your theology and the god that you believe in?

Steven has mentioned immature thinking, but no one else has to my knowledge. To say that one poster constitutes what "is so often the case in this blog" is kinda blowing things out of proportion, don't you think?

Anonymous said...

Well, assuming you've never read the Bible, it says "do not test the Lord your God."

Maybe, just maybe that is why when you lay out an experiment in front of the most-high and tell him,"Now heal!" that is why there seems to be a lack of response.

But wait GCT!!! There is no flaw in your responses. Those aren't circular arguments!! They are pure and undeniable truth. Wait...you're omniscient aren't you? You must be God!

Chad said...

And for proof of prayer, look at www.freshfire.ca. People getting out of wheelchairs and people being raised from the dead, blind and deaf being opened. It's all in Lakeland, Florida where thousands of people are taking notice...even their news channels. If this can't open you even a little bit to what we as Christians believe as truth, well, I hope I can be true to what I see as truth and believe myself for your salvation.

(I was the previous "anonymous", my bad)